As the creator of a luxury chocolate empire exceeding $35MM annually, Katrina shares insights on what not to forget as a leader.
Every few weeks as part of The Heartbeat, I asks one question to a founder, CEO, or business owner I respect about their biggest leadership lesson learned.
Katrina Markoff is the Founder and CEO of Vosges Haut-Chocolat, an international chocolate company that exceeds $35MM in revenue annually. Katrina has been featured on the Food Network, not to mention countless
Claire: Hi, everyone. Iām Claire Lew and Iām the CEO of Know Your Company. Today I am thrilled to have with me the one and only Katrina Markoff.
If any of you have ever heard or eaten Vosges chocolate which I have in my kitchen all the timeāāāthis is my favorite barāāāKatrina is the founder and chocolatier of this amazing brand.
She studied in Paris and built this company from the ground up. Itās all about this ethos of being able to travel, in many ways, when you eat chocolate. You can find her chocolate in, obviously, high end boutiques all across the world, but I think the thing thatās really unique about what you do too is you also make it very accessible. You actually have locations at OāHare International Airport. You distribute your bars also through Whole Foods.
And then something that I actually learned today that I had no idea about is, she recently launched a new brand of chocolate called Wild Ophelia and all the proceeds go towards an accelerator that they have for young women entrepreneurs in high school that are in food businesses.
Katrina: High school and college.
Claire: Absolutely amazing. I know youāve also been on the Food Network and in all these publications. Katrina is the real deal. Sheās based here in Chicago. Iām lucky to know her and I admire you a lot.
Katrina: Thank you so much, Claire.
Claire: Oh, my gosh, of course.
Katrina: Itās great to do this.
Claire: Iāve got this one question to ask you, Katrina, about leadership and that is, whatās one thing you wish you would have learned earlier as a leader?

Katrina: I think the importance of staying really close to your leadership team, really aligned and really close. As your business grows from entrepreneurial startup to much bigger, wider teams, youāre pulled. Iām pulled so much as the founder and the face of the brand into being PR focused and speaking focused and whatnot. And I would say, it took me a lot out of the company and I am naturally an introvert.
Claire: Oh, really? I would never have guessed that. Me too.
Katrina: So Iāve learned through bumps and hills and valleys that you canāt lose that connection with your team because itās so often theyāre working for you, for your vision. That connectivity to you is part of the reason theyāre there.
So as you get drawn more and more out, you have to remember how do you connect again.
That is in ways of lunch or getting feedback or social outings with your team. I think thatās important, not to lose sight of that. It seems maybe thatās obvious, but actually ā
Claire: Itās hard.
Katrina: ⦠itās hard.
Claire: It might be obvious, to your point, but itās hard in practice. I think everyone whoās watching this is probably nodding their heads going, āOh, yeah, as a CEO or as a leader being out, doing, speaking, being out promoting, etc, you forget to reconnect with the team. For you though, how big is your leadership team? How many people do you have? How big is actually Vosges as a company right now?
Katrina: We probably have around 100 employees and it flexes up depending on the seasonality because we make a lot of chocolate during the holidays and so it goes up. But in reverse, itās the core group of leaders in the organization, maybe thereās eight to 10, but those are very important eight to 10 people that need to feel like theyāre important to you. I had kids too which is a whole other level of distraction from being a founder, single, then got married, then had kids. All that stuff is taking that part of you. I think the more you can set up those connection points with your team and also, of course, hire the right people who are very entrepreneurial in nature, as I like to say, or take a lot of initiative, more the type that maybe you need to pull the reins, but less that you have to push up the hill and that need a lot of feedback from you to make those decisions. Figuring out how you change your team over the time of your life with the business and its initiation stages to the more mature space.
Claire: Absolutely. No, that makes so much sense. I have a million questions I want to ask you.
Claire: The first part is around, youāre talking about connection points, building connection points. So when you were saying, āOh, it could be as simple as lunch.ā Is there anything you do particularly right now with the Vosges leadership team that might be considered counterintuitive about connection points or what do you try to do as a leader to make sure youāre staying in contact with folks?

Katrina: One of the things Iāve been doing lately is really having the level playing field conversations like, āPlease give me feedback. What are your ideas? How could we make this better? You tell me, give me feedback. Please give me feedback. What do I need to be doing better?ā Because I think the more down to earth and approachable they think you are, the better it can gel. I donāt like top down organizations. People that are on the floor making the chocolates to people that are running those teams, they see so much that I donāt see as much anymore. I worked in every area before which is super helpful to know how everything works, but then you get a little bit distance so you need to get their feedback and how can they feel comfortable giving you that information.
Katrina:
Sometimes having these titles makes people feel like theyāre so much further away from you than truly they are. Just really approaching it on a human level like, āHow are we doing this together? Letās figure this out.ā I think that empowers people when they know they have a voice to you, especially with people that are new.
And also with all the new hires now, Iām spending time with them, just even 15 minutes the first or second week itās like sharing my vision, getting to know who they are, what are their interests and really trying to connect so there feels like thereās a trust.
Claire: Absolutely. Well, I think one benefit that you probably have in building that trust is, you do run a chocolate ⦠how many of us run a chocolate company in the sense of the vision that everyone is gathering around and excited about is pretty aligned. Do you ever find any challenges though in the sense that because itās food, because itās chocolate, which is so pleasurable and won- ⦠I mean, chocolateās one of my biggest loves in life. Do you find any tension around the fact that, āWe are running a chocolate company, but at the same time, how do we make sure everyone is one the same page. Iām curious about that.
Katrina: When you first start, thereās chocolate everywhere and itās really fun, but itās definitely a business too. Itās really fun, but itās like how are we really focusing on the goals for each channel because thereās so many channels within the business. Itās fairly complicated in that way because we manufacture in-house, we do sell to other retailers like the Whole Foods of the world and Krogerās. Then we have our own retail boutiques and we have our own e-commerce and we have our own business development, own hospitality and events, now weāre opening up our Chocolate Temple to the public. So thereās a lot of complexity which makes for a really beautiful deep brand with a lot of story, but also complexity.
Claire: Itās almost like seven different businesses that you just described to me.
Katrina: Seven different little businesses.
Claire: Absolutely. One of the things that you also mentioned too in managing that complexity is, you were saying, emphasizing the important of who you hire. And I loved what you said about finding people who you have to pull the reins back on instead of push up the hill. Can you tell me a little bit about that? When did you realize that was important? Did something happen or-
Katrina: Yeah. I would say when I first started, I remember thinking, āWell, we couldnāt really afford to hire people that were too expensive. So we would hire-
Claire: I think we can all relate to that, all of us watching this.

Katrina: Youāre building a brand and there wasnāt this huge foodie movement when I started and now itās pretty sexy being in the food business. In the beginning, it was just like really working side by side with them and showing them and then having them do it as opposed to necessarily hiring expertise that I was going to learn from and that was going to take off and just go. I think as we got bigger and I couldnāt be in all the areas, it seemed clear to me that it was more and more important that people were driving it, that were taking the reins and doing it. Iām not the best at hiring, Iād say itās not my skill set. Recently, a woman whoās just been an inadvertent mentor/angel decided to lean in and help me. She literally helped me hire the last three or four people and sheās really good at it. So one of the things.
Claire: What does she do that you donāt do?
Katrina: She has an innate⦠I donāt know, ability of how to judge people and ask questions and know whoās good. In many cases, I probably wouldnāt have hired the people she selected and theyāve been rock stars. So itās very clear to me that itās not my forte to hire people. Thatās okay.
You have to know, probably almost more important, is to know what youāre not good at than what youāre good. You kind of already know what youāre good at.
Claire: Absolutely. I love that.
Katrina: And you canāt be good at everything. If you know someone whoās quite good at doing something you have a deficit in, ask them to help, however. In this case, this woman was so generous. Sheās like, āJust throw me a chocolate party, somewhere Iāll help you out.ā Iām like, āOh, are you kidding?ā Angels show up all the time and sheās definitely one of them.
Claire: Thatās amazing. I think what you said about knowing what youāre not good at is almost more important than knowing what you are good at. I think thatās such an important piece of wisdom. Also, hard to do, right?
Katrina: Thatās true.
Claire: Talk to me about, do you have to swallow your pride when you do that? How do you keep that in check because I think for a lot of leaders, we know what weāre good at. I donāt know if we always know what weāre not good at.
Katrina: And the thing is, you always have to have a strong face for your board, for investors, for the press, whatever. Itās very atypical to feel safe around saying what youāre not good at.
Claire: Like the fact that you said, āIām not good at hiring,ā and youāre a CEO. No, no, no, I just mean like thatās refreshing. Thatās super refreshing.

Katrina: And itās real. At a certain point, when your company gets to a certain level too, youāve got to really know that clearly because, in my case, Iām good at getting it from zero to 30ish million, but to get from 30 to 100 is a whole different game. In fact, what I find now is that Iām setting myself up to go back to my roots which is my sweet spot which is really creating the vision, the story, the product, being the faith, those kinds of things that no one really else can do and building a team around innovation and stuff like that. Then it creates a bigger and broader group that can do what I do too. Yeah, you know when you get to these different levels, how you reassess.
Because, in the beginning, you have to be good at everything. But then, at some point, you have to say, āReally, Iām best at this and next level, I need these types of people to fill in my gaps.
Claire: Absolutely. And I think thereās something really interesting in the beginning, you have to be good at everything, but not necessarily great. Then when you get to a certain level, then you have to be actually great and world class in a few specific areas. Itās very difficult to be great and world class in everything. Thatās when you need to find those people and admit to yourself, āOkay, Iām strong in this, Iām strong, Iām not.ā Iām curious, for you, how do you keep that check? Do you have a person you talk to be like, āHey, can you keep me grounded about what Iām not good at,ā or is it your leadership team that keeps you in check. Is there something personally that you do and ask yourself questions. Is it an executive coach or is it a peer group?
Katrina: Iāve had all of it. Iāve had coaches, Iāve had peer groups, Iāve had my husband give me a lot of feedback. And you know, frankly, Iām fairly self critical so I have a pretty good sense of that.
Claire: We donāt need more of that.
Katrina: Iām pretty hard on myself, but where I have a ton of fire and a ton of confidence is where I know thatās my strength because it just naturally comes up and I can naturally be very strong about my opinions and I know that where thereās passion, thereās usually magnetism and thereās usually something right about that. And Iām super intuitive. Iāve been like that this whole time, about this brand. I think when I veered off from being intuitive is when Iāve made mistakes.
Claire: Interesting.
Katrina:
Whether itās all these people that seem to be much smarter than me in X, Y, Z and referring to data and whatnot. Itās good to a point, but at the end of the day, intuition has to be the lead. And you have to be confident in your commitment to that. Because, in the end, thatās the thing that makes us very different from AI, very different from the computers of the world. Itās something that is a sense that humans have that we must continue to honor.
Claire: Absolutely. Thank you so much for encouraging us to listen to ourselves, to trust that intuition. I think a lot of reason why people would even watch videos like this and like The Heartbeat is because they think, āOh, someone else has the right answer. Thereās some advice out there thatās good.ā And, itās the case.
Katrina: And, itās inside.
Claire: Itās inside. One of my favorite quick, I donāt know if you said this, but itās just the thing I always repeat to myself is that, āEverything you think you need, you already have.ā
Katrina: Exactly.
Claire: Itās all inside.
Katrina: And trust the universe.
Claire: Exactly. Well, Katrina, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom with all of us.
Katrina: Thank you.
Claire: I know weāre all walking away just reminding ourselves to think about maybe the things weāre not good at, but also at the same time, to listen to ourselves a little bit more.
Katrina: Absolutely.
Claire: Thank you so much again. And for those of you who havenāt eaten any Vosges yet today, maybe now is a good time.
Katrina: Thank you.

